A Place Called Vietnam

I do not know who wrote this, but my hat is off to him. I did however change it a little. I don't care who you are or how old you are, you have to see this. If you didn't live through this era, then it is your duty to learn about it and to remember it and to honor those men and women who valiantly fought for our country. Sons and daughter, never forget what your parents went through. People who lived through this horror, remember that these were our brothers, our husbands and wives, our cousins, our close friends, our school mates. These are all the people we knew and loved and we should never, never, never stop honoring them as the heroes they are/were. See this, hear this, and cry. You won't be able to stop yourself as you think of the people, both living and dead, that fought in Vietnam. No one was left untouched by this time in our history. May God bless all of your hearts and souls and know that we will never forget any of you or ever be able repay you for your sacrifice...A Place Called VietNamSome gave a little;Some gave a lot;Some gave everything;We all gave something.. http://www.operationmom.org/ToOurParents.htmlIt saddens and upsets me when I ponder those people who did not honor our Country and our people at that time. We did not have a choice, we were serving our Country then as the men and women are serving their Country today in far away lands for my freedom and yours._________________Gerald Hannah U.S.S. Orleck 1966-1969

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    • I'm not about to try to check the validity of all this information. Take it as you see fit.

      LEST WE FORGET, ALL AMERICAN HEROES

      Room 7, Hanoi Hilton
      In late 2000, Cdr Air Group (CAG) Jim Stockdale, Room 7 Senior Ranking Officer (SRO) asked his old friend, By Fuller to provide a list of the roommates of Room 7, Hanoi Hilton as of Christmas 1970. The roommates of this room were extraordinary, both at the time of incarceration, and then later in freedom.

      Room 7 had the first organized church service to be held in the prisons of North Vietnam. Permission was asked for by Stockdale, and twice denied by the Camp Commander. The room was warned not to do it. Room 7 decided to do it anyway. They even had a choir. Their solemn service quickly caught the eye of the guards and authorities. Armed guards rushed into the room to break up the "ominous" unauthorized meeting. Ringleaders, Risner, Coker and Rutledge were led out of the room with guards at each arm (they were headed for more Heartbreak Hotel, solitary confinement and lots of punishment). Bud Day was the one who then jumped up on his bed and started to sing "The National Anthem" and "God Bless America." The entire room burst into song. Then Rooms Six, Five, Four, Three, Two and One joined in succession. These songs of pride and defiance were loud enough to be heard outside the 15-foot walls of the Hanoi Hilton. As Robbie marched out the door, his back straightened with pride. He held his head high.

      Robbie later recalled his thoughts as his roommates burst out in song, "I felt like I was nine feet tall and could go bear hunting with a switch." Thirty-one years later, on November 16, 2001, a nine-foot tall bronze statue of Brigadier General Robinson Risner, USAF would be dedicated on the central plaza of the United States Air Force Academy. To Bud Day (principal speaker), Ross Perot (the sponsor of the project), and dozens of Robbie's Room-Seven roommates at the ceremony, it seemed more fitting to call the statue "life size." Photos: Dedication of B/Gen Robbie Risner's Statue - USAFA 16-18 November 2001

      CAG, knowing what the VC reaction would be, was heard to remark something to the effect, "Well, I guess we just can't stand prosperity." Our camp, yet unnamed, from that moment on became known as Camp Unity. The guards protested, but the songs continued. Shortly thereafter, Vietnamese troops entered each room in force. They had their hats secured with chinstraps in place, they had fixed bayonets, and they were mad! They quickly backed the POWs against the walls with a bayonet in each POW's stomach. The singing immediately ceased as the troops burst through the doors. The VC later claimed that they had put down a riot. It wasn't a real riot, but it was a lot of fun until the soldiers entered the room. Several roommates of Room 7 were jerked out the next day. The next day, Orson Swindle in Room 6 tapped the following message on the wall: "Damn, you'd have to get in line to get in trouble in that crowd!"

      Thanks to By Fuller for the gut work of putting together this facts sheet. Paul Galanti and Mike McGrath assisted. This historical document is dedicated to a fearless leader, Vice Admiral Jim Stockdale, CAG.

      Here's what the men of Room 7 accomplished!

      Roster of Room 7 on 26 December 1970 Hanoi Hilton
      Name: Rank Days captive:
      1. Brady, Al Cdr, USN 2236

      2. Coker, George Lt (jg), USN 2381

      3. Coskey, Ken Cdr, USN 1650

      4. Craner, Bob Maj, USAF 1911

      5. Crayton, Render LCdr, USN 2562

      6. Crow, Fred LCol, USAF 2170

      7. Crumpler, Carl LCol, USAF 1713

      8. Daniels, Vern Cdr, USN 1966

      9. Daughtrey, Norlan Capt, USAF 2751

      10. Day, Bud Maj, USAF 2027

      11. Denton, Jerry Cdr, USN 2766

      12. Doremus, Rob LCdr, USN 2729

      13. Dramesi, John Capt, USAF 2163

      14. Dunn, Howie Maj, USMC 2624

      15. Fellowes, Jack LCdr, USN 2381

      16. Finlay, Jack LCol, USAF 1781

      17. Franke, Bill Cdr, USN 2729

      18. Fuller, By Cdr, USN 2060

      19. Gillespie, Chuck Cdr, USN 1968

      20. Guarino, Larry Maj, USAF 2801

      21. Gutterson, Laird Maj, USAF 1846

      22. Hughes, Jim LCol, USAF 2130

      23. James, Charlie Cdr, USN 1761

      24. Jenkins, Harry Cdr, USN 2648

      25. Johnson, Sam Maj, USAF 2494

      26. Kasler, Jim Maj, USAF 2400

      27. Kirk, Tom LCol, USAF 1964

      28. Lamar, Jim LCol, USAF 2474

      29. Larson, Swede LCol, USAF 2130

      30. Lawrence, Bill Cdr, USN 2076

      31. Ligon, Vern LCol, USAF 1942

      32. McCain, John LCdr, USN 1966

      33. McKnight, George Maj, USAF 2655

      34. Moore, Mel Cdr, USN 2185

      35. Mulligan, Jim Cdr, USN 2521

      36. Pollard, Ben Maj, USAF 2120

      37. Risner, Robbie LCol, USAF 2706

      38. Rivers, Wendy LCdr, USN 2715

      39. Rutledge, Howie Cdr, USN 2633

      40. Schoeffel, Pete LCdr, USN 1988

      41. Shumaker, Bob LCdr, USN 2923

      42. Stockdale, Jim Cdr, USN 2713

      43. Stockman, Hervey LCol, USAF 2093

      44. Stratton, Dick LCdr, USN 2250

      45. Tanner, Nels LCdr, USN 2338

      46. Webb, Ron Capt, USAF 2093

      47. Gary Anderson Lt (jg), USN 2151


      Total days in captivity: 108,116

      Man-years in captivity: 296.21

      Here's a brief history of the 47 men:

      5 Made Admiral rank (Stockdale O-9, Lawrence O-9, Shumaker O-8, Denton O-8, Fuller O-8).

      1 Made General rank (Risner O-7)

      40 Others stayed in the military and attained the following ranks: (USMC 1 Col--Dunn; Navy 1 Cdr--Coker;

      AF 1 LCol--Daughtrey; AF 19 Colonels--Craner, Crow, Crumpler, Day, Dramesi, Finlay, Guarino, Gutterson, Hughes, Kasler, Johnson, Kirk, Lamar, Larson, Ligon, McKnight, Pollard, Stockman, & Webb; Navy 18 Captains--Brady, Coskey, Crayton, Daniels, Doremus, Fellowes, Franke, Gillespie, James, Jenkins, McCain, Moore, Mulligan, Rivers, R utledge, Schoeffel, Stratton, & Tanner.

      2 Became U.S. Congressmen (Johnson, Texas; McCain, Arizona).

      2 Became U.S. Senators (Denton, Alabama; McCain, Arizona).

      1 Was a Vice Presidential candidate (Stockdale).

      1 Was a Presidential candidate (McCain).

      2 Received the Medal of Honor (Stockdale, Day). Day resumed his career as a lawyer.

      3 Received the Navy Cross (Denton, Coker, Fuller). (3 of the 4 POWs to receive this award were from this room.
      Red McDaniel was the 4th POW to receive the award.

      4 Made escapes. All were recaptured, all were tortured. (Dramesi, Coker, McKnight, Day).

      2 Were jet aces from the Korea War (Risner: 9 kills in F-86; Kasler: 6 kills in F-86).

      1 First pilot to fly over Russia in U-2 spy aircraft (Stockman).

      1 Was shot down 4-15-1944 in Germany. POW until April 1945. 26th mission in P-47 (Ligon)

      1 Shot down 3 German planes during WW II. Flying British aircraft (Guarino). Flew 156 missions in Sicily, India, China and Indo-China.

      1 Flew 62 missions in Korea War. Got credit for 1 kill, 1 damaged, 1 probable kill against Mig 15s (Johnson).

      7 Received the Air Force Cross (Kasler--3 awards; Risner--2 awards; Dramesi:
      2 awards, Day, Kirk, Guarino and McKnight each received one award).

      4 Were Navy Test Pilots (Stockdale, Lawrence, Gillespie, & Franke).

      1 Flew with the Thunderbirds (Johnson).

      11 Were USNA graduates (Brady '51, Denton '47, Fellowes '56, Fuller '51, Gillespie '51, Lawrence '51, McCain '58, Rivers '52, Schoeffel '54, Shumaker '56, and Stockdale '47).

      2 Were Landing Signal Officers (LSOs); (Stockdale, Tanner).

      1 Escaped the B-52 community and got into comb at flying the F-105G (Larson).

      1 Lawrence, has a daughter who is an astronaut, gone into space three times (789 hours). She is presently in training as a crewmember of the International Space Station.

      1 Was a Navy Air Wing Commander (CAG): (Stockdale, (COMAIRGRU 16).

      1 Fuller, commanded a Navy Carrier, the USS America. Later became Battle Group Commander CARGRU 4 Commander. Fuller

      10 Were Squadron Commanders (Coskey (VA-85), Day (TBD), Denton (VA-75), Franke, Fuller (VA-76), Gillespie, Jenkins VA-163), Lawrence (VF-143), Ligon (11th TRS) and Larson (469th TFS) when shot down), Schoeffel (VA-83).

      5 Were Squadron Executive Officer s (Daniels, Moore, Mulligan, Rutledge, and Brady. They were shot down before they could make Squadron Commander.

      10 Authored books:

      a. Day: Return With Honor.

      b. Denton: When Hell Was In Session.
      c. Dramesi: Code of Honor.

      d. Guarino: A POW's Story : 2801 Days in Hanoi.

      e. Johnson: Captive Warriors: A Vietnam POW's Story.

      f. McCain: Faith of My Fathers. This was also made into a movie.

      g. Mulligan: The Hanoi Commitment.

      h. Risner: The Passing of the Night.

      i. Rutledge: In the Presence of Mine Enemies.

      j. Stockdale: Courage Under Fire; In Love and War; A Vietnam Experience; Thoughts of a Philosophical Fighter Pilot.


      4 Became Presidents/Commandants/Superintendents of institutions of higher learning: Stockdale:President of the Citidel and President of the Naval War College; Lawrence: Superintendent of the USNA; Shumaker: Superintendent of the Naval Postgraduate School; and (TBD); Denton: Commandant of Armed Forces Staff College).

      2 Glassairuilt and Jenkinstheir own airplanes. Jenkins, Long EZ, Shumaker, Glassair. Pollard is currently flying sail planes.

      1 Was the first active duty Naval Aviator to fly Mach II (Lawrence).

      1 Gillespie was first Naval Aviator to land on an aircraft carrier in 0/0 fog with a newly developed Aircraft Carrier Landing System. Yes, it was an emergency low fuel state!

      2 Lawrence and Shumaker Naval Aviators were in the final selection groups (before shootdown) for the Mercury Astronaut Program
      Many of the members of Room 7 either served during wars prior to Vietnam, or saw combat in theatres other than Vietnam

      WW II:

      Vern Ligon: USA Air Corps, 25 missions, P-47 pilot, POW in Stalag Luft 1, 1944-45, escaped once, recaptured.

      Larry Guarino: USA Air Corps, 156 missions in Sicily, India, China and Indo-China. Spitfires.

      Hervey Stockman: USA Air Corps. 68 missions, P-51.

      Jim Kasler: USA Air Corps, 7 missions as tail gunner, B-29.

      Harry Jenkins and Gordon Larson were Navy V5 cadets and Fred Crow was an Army Air Corps aviation cadet when WW II ended.

      Bud Day: Corporal, USMC, 30 months in south and central Pacific, April 1942-Nov 1945.

      By Fuller and Carl Crumpler: Enlisted in US Navy summer of 1 945. Saw boot camp by the end of WW II.

      Fred Crow and Al Brady: were Navy dependents at Pearl Harbor, December 7, 1941.

      Korea:

      Robby Risner : USAF, 108 missions, F-86. Mig Ace with 9 kills.

      Jim Kasler: USAF, 100 missions, F-86, Mig Ace with 6 kills. < br> Howie Rutledge: USN, 200 missions, F9F-2 as a Flying Midshipman.&nbs p;

      Harry Jenkins: Served aboard USS Fred T. Berry (DD-141) off coast of Korea. Flying Midshipman.

      Tom Kirk: Flew missions in Korea.

      Larry Guarino: USAF, Air Defense Alert missions.

      Jim Lamar: USAF, 100 missions in F-80 and P-51.

      Wendy Rivers: Served on a destroyer off the coast of Korea.

      Laird Gutterson: USAF, flew 60 missions, P-51.

      Verlyne Daniels: Flew AD-4 missions, March-August 1953.

      Sam Johnson: USAF, flew 62 missions, F-86, 1 kill, 1 probable, 1 damaged against Mig 15s.

      Bud Day: USAF, air defense missions, F-84s.

      Bill Lawrence: (F2H-3) and By Fuller (F9F-5) arrived off the coast of Korea in October 1953. They were flying off the USS Oriskany. Too late the war was over!

      Fred Crow: Had various commands stateside during the Korean War.

      Carl Crumpler: Flew F-86s at George AFB. War was over too soon for him to participate.

      Magnificent men, all, whether in a cockpit, in a cell, or at a desk. Provided to show that, regardless of the circumstances, some are never defeated, only temporarily delayed.

      All of this and some SOB says, "getting shot down and captured does not qualify someone to be president"
      but the mutt, with 143 days in congress does qualify? What a country, but how long will we stand at this rate?
      • For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty:

        Captain Ed W. Freeman, United States Army, distinguished himself by numerous acts of conspicuous gallantry and extraordinary intrepidity on 14 November 1965 while serving with Company A, 229th Assault Helicopter Battalion, 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile). As a flight leader and second in command of a 16-helicopter lift unit, he supported a heavily engaged American infantry battalion at Landing Zone X-Ray in the Ia Drang Valley, Republic of Vietnam. The unit was almost out of ammunition after taking some of the heaviest casualties of the war, fighting off a relentless attack from a highly motivated, heavily armed enemy force. When the infantry commander closed the helicopter landing zone due to intense direct enemy fire, Captain Freeman risked his own life by flying his unarmed helicopter through a gauntlet of enemy fire time after time, delivering critically needed ammunition, water and medical supplies to the besieged battalion. His flights had a direct impact on the battle's outcome by providing the engaged units with timely supplies of ammunition critical to their survival, without which they would almost surely have gone down, with much greater loss of life. After medical evacuation helicopters refused to fly into the area due to intense enemy fire, Captain Freeman flew 14 separate rescue missions, providing life-saving evacuation of an estimated 30 seriously wounded soldiers -- some of whom would not have survived had he not acted. All flights were made into a small emergency landing zone within 100 to 200 meters of the defensive perimeter where heavily committed units were perilously holding off the attacking elements. Captain Freeman's selfless acts of great valor, extraordinary perseverance and intrepidity were far above and beyond the call of duty or mission and set a superb example of leadership and courage for all of his peers. Captain Freeman's extraordinary heroism and devotion to duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflect great credit upon himself, his unit and the United States Army. Thanks Tim, just had to add this for others to read.
      • You're an 18 or 19 year old kid. You're critically wounded, and dying in the jungle in the La Drang Valley, LZ Xray, Vietnam 11-14-1965. Your Infantry Unit is out numbered 8 - 1, and the enemy fire is so intense, from 100 or 200 yards away, that your own Infantry commander has ordered the Medevac helicopters to stop coming in. You're lying there, listening to the enemy machine guns, and you know you're not getting out. Your family is 1/2 way around the world, 12,000 miles away, and you'll never see them again. As the world starts to fade in and out, you know this is the day. Then, over the machine gun noise, you faintly hear that sound of a helicopter, and you look up to see a Huey, but it doesn't seem real, because no Medevac markings are on it. Ed Freeman is coming for you. He's not Medevac, so it's not his job, but he's flying his Huey down in to the machine gun fire, after the Medevacs were ordered not to come. He's coming anyway. And he drops it in, and sits there in the machine gun fire, as they load 2 or 3 of you on board. Then he flies you up and out through the gunfire. He kept coming back... 13 more times, and took about 30 of you and your buddies out. Medal of Honor Winner Ed Freeman died yesterday at the age of 80, in Boise
      • That same SOB is supported by these people:

        All are on record of supporting obama

        Look at the top right. No surprise huh?
        • I'm with you Tim, the SOB has got some nerve. I believe this fool needs to be Tar and Feathered. How Un- American can you get, how can anyone support this idiot.
          • No idea really especially when you know he is going to take money out of Our pockets with taxation. That is just the tip of he agenda and I just shake my head at his supporters.

            It is clear cut for me on who I will vote for. McCain was not my 1st choice as he has some issues that I do not agree with but besides that fact, he is our other choice. With these choices, it is very clear on who is more qualified to run the highest office of the Nation.

            When he, McCain, announced his VP running mate, I told my wife days prior to his announcement she would be the best choice, it was the smoothest move in this political chess game. That move stole the limelight from obama at a time just after his parties convention that naturally would boost his ratings. Plus look at how the left are scrambling to find 'something' bad about her and are ranting on why her. Very slick and skillful move by the McCain Campaign. That is the kind of aggressiveness we need in a President.

            Everyone seems to be comparing Palin to obama when it should be McCain vs obama. The facts are, Palin is far more qualified for the VP and President than obama. Show me another Governor with an approval rating of 84% in their state? They're isn't one.

            It is an exciting run for the office and in November, I am sure we all will be on the edge of our seats as we tune into the election day. So on this day of Remembrance of 9/11, we, as Americans, need to sit down, take a deep breath, and wonder which two would be the best to protect the United States. I do not know about you all, but a man who spent over 20 years in the service, A Vietnam War Vet, a Prisoner of war who went through what he did for the number of years, and over 30 years of Political service, is more than qualified than a junior senator who "wanted to be in the military," and I quote "“You know, I actually did,” Obama said. “I had to sign up for Selective Service when I graduated from high school. And I was growing up in Hawaii. And I have friends whose parents were in the military. There are a lot of Army, military bases there.

            “And I actually always thought of the military as an ennobling and, you know, honorable option. But keep in mind that I graduated in 1979. The Vietnam War had come to an end. We weren't engaged in an active military conflict at that point. And so, it's not an option that I ever decided to pursue.” http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13217.html



            • Uh oh, look at what I found lol....I am sure someone on this website will not like it.

              • I know what your saying Tim,and I feel the same way. Mccain was not the best choice,but with Palin at his side I believe we are headed in the right direction. I readan editorial by Chuck Norris the yesterday, man he slammed the h*** out of obama. He called it an "obamanation" that he started attacking Palin. Like my Granddad told me, "Obama would rather go bear hunting with a switch than mess with Palin". At the end of Chuck's editorial he said," Give him H*** girl, Give him H*** ".
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